County of Parkland "Primitive Weapons Zone" change

[scooter]

It came to our attention a few weeks ago that a motion was made by County of Parkland councillors at their meeting to suggest to government to change the current bow only designation to that of a Primitive Weapons Zone for that area that takes up the County of Parkland. It seems council had very little factual information to base their motion/support on the issue. Concerned landowners, bowhunters and others have started to raise concerns with the county and it appears it will be looked at further. We discussed this issue at our AGM (March 29) and have struck a committee to get the facts, help the locals where we can and write a letter to the County to help them make an informed decision. Our North Director, Gary McCartney will head the committee. If you want to help us out get ahold of Gary Gary McCartney (gary.mccartney@telus.net) or myself (bcwatson@telusplanet.net).

[Mikey]

Brent/Scott

sooooooo what does that mean? ... and what little factual information did they base this decision upon?

[Brent Watson]

I was called by a concerned landowner in the county who found out that the council had been approached by two acreage owners upset about deer in their yards. Their concerns were expressed to council and they passed a motion to approach government about changing the designation from bow only to primitive weapons. primarily to reduce the numbers of deer. Since that motion has passed, numerous other landowners have approached individual councillors/county administrators and brought forth information/concerns about safety, the non-primitive nature of many muzzleloaders and shotguns now-a-days, that biologists for the area think the deer numbers are relatively stable, that access to property is THE biggest limiting factor for hunters (regardless of weapon of choice), etc. The Alberta Bowhunters Association has struck a committee (mostly of concerned members who live/hunt in that area) to make sure our concerns are heard and that the people making the decisions have ALL the information.

[SAVETHEBOWZONE]

SRD is proposing to allow guns in the Edmonton BowZone - Calgary BowZone will surely follow!

There’s some controversial news in the Edmonton area, that’s creating heated debate among bow hunters, rifle hunters and the general public alike.

Sustainable Resources Development is planning to allow muzzle-loaders and shotguns into the bow only archery zone, outside of Edmonton, Alberta.

Wildlife Management Unit 248, known as the Edmonton Bowzone, reaches into the surrounding counties of Parkland, Sturgeon, Strathcona, and Leduc.

The justification for this new policy stems from a population increase of deer inside subdivisions, likely due to the easy access of food for the animals.

There are various concerns raised by this policy from the parties involved.

Home owners are obviously worried about the possible safety implications to residents and especially children in the area.

Bow hunters are concerned with an increased difficulty in gaining permission to hunt in the area, or even losing access to grounds that they have already had permission on in the past.

IF THIS GOES THROUGH, THIS OPENS THE DOORS FOR ALL OF ALBERTA’S BOWZONE’s TO BE DESTROYED...CALGARY’S BOWZONE WILL BE NEXT!

According to Alberta Fish and Wildlife, they are going to follow The County of Parkland's lead on this issue...According to the MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE COUNCIL OF PARKLAND COUNTY HELD TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2008, IN THE PARKLAND COUNTY CENTRE AT PARKLAND COUNTY, ALBERTA, Councillor Goerz MOVED That Parkland County support Sustainable Resource Development (Fish and Wildlife Division) in the implementation of a shotgun, muzzle loader and crossbow hunting season in Parkland County (that part that falls within Wildlife Management Unit 248). 73-08 which was Carried Unanimously.

Who’s telling the truth here? Who’s driving this? You NEED to be at the open house listed below if you want to save your BowZone!


- At this time, Parkland County has rescinded their "No Discharge of Firearms" bylaw
- There will be an open house meeting hosted by the county JULY 10 at the Garden Valley Hall. (Corner of 627 and Campsite Road (South of Spruce Grove, AB)
- Ads will be in the papers etc.for the times of this meeting.
- The local Fish & Wildlife Bioligist will be in attendance.
- County has hired a consultant to chair this meeting.

You can help protect the BowZone!

Please call Parkland County at (780) 968-8888 or Toll Free at 1-888-880-0858 to let them know what you think and make sure you’re in attendance at the Open House on July 10th, 2008.

The Minutes of the REGULAR MEETING OF THE COUNCIL OF PARKLAND COUNTY HELD TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2008 are attached below.

[Hubbard]

i agree that the bowzones should be kept as bow only zones. however i feel it is imperative that we make our voices heard in a carefully planned out way. if we use the argument that we are concerned for the safety of the general public than that opens the doors to the anti's who claim hunting and firearms in general are dangerous. when in reality firearms used by responsible owners are perfectly safe they are just not right for this area because of population density and the noise they produce etc. we don't want to start squabbling with other hunters.

[Brent Watson]

The first post is all "true". The Alberta Bowhunters Association has struck a committee to help deal with this issue -- is made up of local area landowners and bowhunters. The ABA will be in attendance but it will be the will of the local residents who will drive this -- the County of Parkland and it's councillors don't give a hoot about the ABA. All we want to do is get the councillors the information to make an informed decision -- something that has not happened to date. It has been very encouraging to see local bowhunters and landowners getting involved -- they will be the ones to make a difference.
If this goes through, you can bet that the Calgary bowzone will follow. They are having an even bigger problem with high game populations than around Edmonton.
In a meeting with the heads of F&W last Friday it is very apparent that they have an extremely tough job juggling wildlife management, hunters and landowners. As hunters and bowhunters in certain areas such as this, we have to do a better job in harvesting antlerless animals or there will be changes made to achieve those harvest goals. We also discussed and reiterated the fact that ACCESS is the KEY issue in all of this -- no matter the weapons involved.

[Mikey]

While I am not an Alberta Resident anymore, I am all for hunter recruitment and sustainability ....

I Also see a need for a Bowonly Zone .... Not nessesarilly as large as it is now .... but there is a safety consideration that should be looked at ...especially with the current urban sprawl.

I would be happy with opening the bow zone up to crossbows as they are a weapon with a similar range of a modern compound bow ... If the people are really worried about an over population of ungulates ..the a crossbow would be the anser ... I am not stating that a crossbow is a bow ... thats a road for a differant thread ... but the relitive simplicity for a rifle hunter to pick one up and shoot it would be favorable to the rifle hunters, the range and noise would be suitible to the land owners ... I see opening a crossbowzone a win win

But those are words from a BC boy where Crossbows are seen as legal archery equipment

[Rick]

If, with the ultimate interest in protecting this as a bow only zone, this is spun as a safety, nuisance, etc issue... you can just about guarantee yourself that those arguments will come back to haunt you at some point in the future. We've already seen areas closed to bows elsewhere over arguments that archery was unsafe where none hunters would be, hunters posed a nuisance to area residents and hikers, etc.

As a BC resident this won't affect me either way, but you better pick your talking points very carefully, because there are other people out there looking for arguments/excuses to stop ALL hunting anywhere remotely near populated areas.

[Grunter]

I think that the relevance of safety is just a convenient excuse to position the need... the real agenda here seems to be a few landowners that want the ability to legally shoot deer in the bowzone with a firearm. Could be wrong but its my opinion...

Then again - under the current hunting regulations a hunter can already use a shotgun or muzzleloader in 212 with a Foothills Deer License and likewise in Strathcona County with a Strathcona Whitetail Deer License so stopping this may not be as easy as some might think.

[Joe in AB]

Hi All,
I speak not only as a person that hunts in the 212 zone but as a person that lives on the edge of it and has many friends that live there as well. I can tell you that safety is a concern but not as much as you may think. It's the yahoos that go out and have no respect for the land owner. They see an animal and shoot from the road or they will trespass and shoot towards the houses or livestock (happens on my place every year). Needless to say that leaves a bad taste in the mouth of the land owner as well as all other ethical hunters. Is it safe to use those firearms in the bow zone? In my opinion, yes, but use them safely. Should they be used in the bow zone? In my opinion, not necessarily. If the reason is for over population or animal management than hunting has always been used weather it be guns or bows. Do I want the bow zones opened up for guns...no....at times could it be necessary...maybe.
A number of years ago they opened up a large portion of the west side of the 212 bowzone to rifle hunters to reduce the elk population (what a gong show). They did that agian last year only the area was smaller. This year they are going to have a draw season in Dec. for antlerless elk for black powder, shotgun and archery.

More food for thought.... the government is concidering compinsating land owners for allowing hunters on their land. $25.00 per hunter. To me this is paid hunting or at least a large step closer. The money will have to come from somewhere....guess where???

[russ]

Joe, a good number of us are aware of the $25 idea, it's something called Open Spaces. There was a ground swell of resistance but that seems to have subsided.

As for not using safety as a talking point, that's an interesting position given that from what I recall the justification for a the bow zone is safety.

[MerlinApexDylan]

I don't really consider a smoke pole a full on fire arm, as the velocity's are far different. I'm not sure of a way to argue this, except perhaps the distance from inhabited homes and the dangerous range of specific weapons?

I dunno if I want to compete with smoke polls and especially not shot guns for hunting space, as I already have a difficult enough time trying to find places to hunt near Edmonton without having the racket of a firearm in the area.

It was a worse problem when I lived up in Fort McMurray, but it's also mostly public land up there and there is no bow zone. I dunno what to suggest, but I will think on it.

[russ]

MAD, I own a smokepole and quite frankly if a 30/30 with a 150 gr bullet is dangerous @ mile then so is my .50 Thunderhawk pushing a 240 gr bullet 100 fps faster. An inline ML is as about as primitive as a 6.0 L Chevy Vortec.

[Mikey]

according to the letter of the law .. anything that pushes a pill over 500 fps is a firearm

[Shoot4Cause]

I would hazard a guess that many of the people complaining about the over population of deer in the bowzone are the same people that won't allow hunting on their land.

Maybe the county should be educating landowners regarding the importance of hunting access when considering herd management?

just my 1 cent

[acearchery]

according to the letter of the law .. anything that pushes a pill over 500 fps is a firearm

..... and is propelled down a tube (barrell) by expanding gases..... which is why an airgun over 500 fps is considered a firearm...

[scooter]

Here's a letter that was just emailed to me:

You have no choice but to fight this poor decision with all your strength
and all possible support you can get. We went through the same ****ty
process in Quebec and the results proved to be catastrophic for
bow hunters. During the 80's whitetail made a comeback in southern Quebec
after being down for 3 decades due to a series of severe winters and
loose hunting regulation. Beginning of the 90's a bow hunting only season
was opened in a number of semi urban zones (2 weeks at the end of
September). This was a golden period for dedicated bow hunters. The male/
female ratio was good and I had the chance to tag 200+ pounds bucks 4
years in a row. But this was too nice to go on forever. In 1996, under
the pressure of hunters seeking an easier path (and sporting goods
retailers), a muzzle loader season was opened in my zone (2 weeks during
the peek of the rut in November; buck, doe and fawn). The first year, 8
big bucks were tagged with muzzle loaders within one km from my place.
During the following years local land owners like me had to stand
against regular trespassing on their properties (which we never
experienced during the bow hunting only era). The bow hunting success went
down the drain.

Nowadays, you have to feel lucky if you get your chance on a small doe
during the archery season. And do not talk to me about Quality Deer
Management. The deer you pass will be shot on a neighboring property
with or without permission during the muzzle loader season. Me and my
wife experienced that first hand with a minute four pointers we passed
last year just to find it rotting on the edge of our property at the
end of the muzzle loader season. The number of permanent blinds has been
booming in the area and not a major deer trail has been forgotten. The
worst is that this plague is growing and extending to other zones. The
last bow hunting only zone of Quebec was opened to shotgun a couple years
ago. Of course the results have been spectacular the first 2 years.
Monster bucks were tagged by average hunters not caring to scout or
seriously prepare any hunting territory. What they do not know is that
they are having very temporary fun at the expenses of the deer herd.
Last year our bright decision makers for hunting regulation have decided
that crossbow was to be allowed during the bowhunting season. Prior to
that, you had to get a special permission and a paper from your doctor.
Would you believe that one out of four bowhunters happened to be
crippled in Quebec.......


Keep fighting

[Joe in AB]

I can certainly relate to that e-mail. Every year we see people shooting from the road and trespassing, and all of them are with firearms. I have yet to kick off a trespasser carrying a bow. My friends that live in the bow zone have rarely had any trouble with bowhunters but when they opened up the elk season for rifle, there were problems every day. If safety is the main reason for the bow zone, keep it a bow zone.

[SAVETHEBOWZONE]

Here are the "Points in Brief" that the ABA Will be submitting at the July 10th, 2008 meeting.

Make sure you go to this meeting and make your voice heard!

FACT: The county has refused ABA and Parkland Bow Benders a slotted time to speak at this meeting on behalf of their members. Mark Cardinal has cited "time constraints" as the reason behind denying these requests.

So, the only logical course of action is to make sure you're at the meeting since Mark Cardinal is hoping that no one opposes his hidden agenda.



Here is the "Points In Brief" we will be submitting. I also sent a 5 page letter to the councilors, the mayor, the managing director of Parkland County. If you would like to see the letter, send me an email and I will forward it. Kind of long for the forum.

Parkland County Primitive Weapons Season “Points In Brief”

The Alberta Bowhunters Association would like to make the following comments and suggestions as to the proposal by Parkland County to change the designation from archery only to primitive weapons for the portion of WMU 248 that lies within the County.

1. After calls from concerned local landowners and hunters on this issue, the ABA has formed a committee (chaired by Gary McCartney) to review the issue and offer it’s help in addressing the various concerns.
2. Some concern as to the quick decision of council to pass the motion and the fact that there has been little if any public consultation. There is a need to disclose the information used to come to this decision.
3. Misinformation as to who initiated this motion – is the County, not SRD.
4. There is a need to determine the actual current game population in the County. A need to review the documented cases of property owner complaints as records show there are only two. —Not significant enough to warrant this change according to many.
5. ACCESS is the key to managing the wildlife in this area – landowner education on wildlife management and allowing bowhunters access to do their job is very important. Allowing different weapons will do nothing to control game populations if access is not allowed. The County needs to allow access to its properties.
6. Allowing primitive weapons (which are no longer primitive in many cases) that are as accurate and far reaching as modern day firearms will certainly create safety issues and also public concern over “hunters” in general being allowed on their property.
7. Bowhunting is THE management tool of choice in many jurisdictions across North America.
8. The ABA has a Game Management Prize Draw where we are trying to educate our members and bowhunters in general on the need to harvest antlerless animals in order to manage game populations. More promotion is pending.
9. There is a local Alberta Hunters Who Care Foodbank Association who help with the distribution of donated wild game to the needy. This program could be promoted more amongst the local bowhunter community.
10. Sunday hunting is finally a reality and this has the potential to double the days in the field for the local bowhunter.
11. A variety of new, innovative management practices could be implemented – a youth hunt for antlerless game between Christmas and New Year’s, extending the antlerless season to December 20 (like the NW region has) or even through to mid-January, create additional antlerless tags at a reduced cost for an extended season, create an extra buck tag IF you harvest two (or three) antlerless deer, create a non-resident antlerless tag in this zone.
12. Develop a program where local landowners can leave their contact information and local bowhunters can be directed to them to deal with problems of too much game on their property.
13. The Alberta Bowhunters association would like to offer its expertise, membership and executive base to the councilors, area landowners and SRD in dealing with this issue.

Brent Watson
2008 ABA President
bcwatson@telusplanet.net
780-539-9811

[petew]

This is copied from Bad Bull Muzzle loaders site. These are not what we think a muzzle loader is,they have more power than a 30-06!!But they qualify as muzzle loaders.

http://www.badbullmuzzleloaders.com/

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8.1: Loading the Muzzleloader Stop Waiting for The Game to Come to You. Send the Bullet to Them!
Distance is no longer a factor.

The Bad Bull Muzzleloader is the Most Powerful, Most Accurate, and Safest Muzzleloader ever built!

This power is attained through the use of Smokeless Powder and our patented Mag-Prime Ignition System.

All Bad Bull Muzzleloaders will shoot MOA accuracy.

We use select Shilen Stainless Steel Barrels.

Our one step Pillar Bedding Process and the latest accuracy techniques to produce the most accurate muzzleloader ever built.



We have customers reporting
1.5" groups at 300 yards

Bad Bull Muzzleloader Accuracy Results
Range
(Yards) Velocity(Ft/Sec) Energy(Ft/Lbs) Momentum
(Lb/Sec) Drop
(Inches) Bullet Path
(Inches) Wind Drift
(Inches) Time of Flight
(Seconds)
0 Yards 3100 6080.4 3.92 0 -1.5 0 0
50 Yards 2896.5 5308.5 3.67 -0.47 1.42 0 0.05006151
100 Yards 2702.2 4620.1 3.42 -1.98 3.3 0 0.10368033
150 Yards 2516.2 4005.9 3.18 -4.69 3.99 0 0.16120818
200 Yards 2337.5 3457.1 2.96 -8.76 3.31 0 0.22306104
250 Yards 2166.1 2968.7 2.74 -14.43 1.03 0 0.28972464
300 Yards 2002 2535.9 2.53 -21.96 -3.1 0 0.36176006
350 Yards 1854.6 2155.2 2.34 -31.66 -9.41 0 0.43980285
400 Yards 1697.7 1823.6 2.15 -43.92 -18.27 0 0.52455726

Find Your Bad Bull Muzzleloader HERE!
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We are confident that your Bad Bull Muzzleloader will be the best muzzleloader you've ever owned. In fact, if you aren't completely satisfied within the first 30 days you'll get your Money Back!


What Our Customers are Saying
"I made 13 one shot kills on small to large whitetail deer at 20 to 200 yards. The most any went was 30 yards. Most went down on the spot or 2 or 3 steps backwards or sideways. Have never been so impressed!"
- Roger Gipple

"Roger, Attached is a photo of the result of the first time I shot your gun. I am going to guess it was a 130-150 yard shot. Any way, one shot one kill, we still have seven days left and I hope to have the opportunity to send you another photo. Thanks and your Bad Bull Muzzleloaders Rock!"

-Brian Hanna



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270-365-7099 | 200 East Legion Drive, Princeton Ky 42445

[scooter]

This is copied from Bad Bull Muzzle loaders site. These are not what we think a muzzle loader is,they have more power than a 30-06!!But they qualify as muzzle loaders.

http://www.badbullmuzzleloaders.com/

Home | Models | The Story | About | F.A.Q. | Contact
Search: 1: Home
2: Models
2.1: X-SERIES 2.2: FB SERIES 2.3: C SERIES 2.4: UTE 2.5: UTE-S 2.6: Customs 3: Articles
3.1: Birth of the Bad Bull 3.2: The Myth of Blackpowder 4: About Us
5: F.A.Q.
6: Contact
8: Videos
8.1: Loading the Muzzleloader Stop Waiting for The Game to Come to You. Send the Bullet to Them!
Distance is no longer a factor.

The Bad Bull Muzzleloader is the Most Powerful, Most Accurate, and Safest Muzzleloader ever built!

This power is attained through the use of Smokeless Powder and our patented Mag-Prime Ignition System.

All Bad Bull Muzzleloaders will shoot MOA accuracy.

We use select Shilen Stainless Steel Barrels.

Our one step Pillar Bedding Process and the latest accuracy techniques to produce the most accurate muzzleloader ever built.



We have customers reporting
1.5" groups at 300 yards

Bad Bull Muzzleloader Accuracy Results
Range
(Yards) Velocity(Ft/Sec) Energy(Ft/Lbs) Momentum
(Lb/Sec) Drop
(Inches) Bullet Path
(Inches) Wind Drift
(Inches) Time of Flight
(Seconds)
0 Yards 3100 6080.4 3.92 0 -1.5 0 0
50 Yards 2896.5 5308.5 3.67 -0.47 1.42 0 0.05006151
100 Yards 2702.2 4620.1 3.42 -1.98 3.3 0 0.10368033
150 Yards 2516.2 4005.9 3.18 -4.69 3.99 0 0.16120818
200 Yards 2337.5 3457.1 2.96 -8.76 3.31 0 0.22306104
250 Yards 2166.1 2968.7 2.74 -14.43 1.03 0 0.28972464
300 Yards 2002 2535.9 2.53 -21.96 -3.1 0 0.36176006
350 Yards 1854.6 2155.2 2.34 -31.66 -9.41 0 0.43980285
400 Yards 1697.7 1823.6 2.15 -43.92 -18.27 0 0.52455726

Find Your Bad Bull Muzzleloader HERE!
Free Information Request If you want to know more about the most powerful and accurate muzzleloaders in the world simply complete the form below:
Name:
Email:
Phone:


No Risk Money Back Guarantee
We are confident that your Bad Bull Muzzleloader will be the best muzzleloader you've ever owned. In fact, if you aren't completely satisfied within the first 30 days you'll get your Money Back!


What Our Customers are Saying
"I made 13 one shot kills on small to large whitetail deer at 20 to 200 yards. The most any went was 30 yards. Most went down on the spot or 2 or 3 steps backwards or sideways. Have never been so impressed!"
- Roger Gipple

"Roger, Attached is a photo of the result of the first time I shot your gun. I am going to guess it was a 130-150 yard shot. Any way, one shot one kill, we still have seven days left and I hope to have the opportunity to send you another photo. Thanks and your Bad Bull Muzzleloaders Rock!"

-Brian Hanna



Home | Models | The Story | About | F.A.Q. | Contact | Legal Information

© Bad Bull Muzzleloaders

270-365-7099 | 200 East Legion Drive, Princeton Ky 42445
Just an FYI - The Open House regarding the disbanding of the Edmonton BowZone starts at 7pm on the 10th of July.

[scooter]

Session Agenda

1. Administrative Items

2. Introductions and Attendee Sign up Sheet (Facilitator)

3. Safety Moment (Facilitator)

4. Review Participant Roles (Facilitator)

5. Review Meeting Purpose (Facilitator)

6. Review Meeting Deliverables/Desired Outcomes (Facilitator)

7. Review Meeting Ground Rules (Facilitator)

8. Review of Background Information
• Current Situation Overview (Mark Cardinal)
• Strathcona Season Information (Fish and Wildlife)
• Parkland County Season Proposal (Fish and Wildlife)

9. Explanation of the Session Format (Facilitator)

10. Information Gathering and Clarification (All)

11. Identification of the Next Steps (Mark Cardinal)

12. Close

[MerlinApexDylan]

I will try to be at the meeting. I came to the conclusion that while being dressed in full Camo I don't trust someone carrying a fire arm not to shoot at me, mistaking me for an animal. I've also concluded, from my previous experiences hunting in Ft McMurray where there is no bowzone, that it's absurd for us to give this zone up to fire arms. How are we to hunt successfully with firearms to compete against? I've hunted in a "bird sanctuary", only to hear shotguns going off left and right, fire arm noise makes it almost impossible for a Bow hunter after big game.

[scooter]

I will try to be at the meeting. I came to the conclusion that while being dressed in full Camo I don't trust someone carrying a fire arm not to shoot at me, mistaking me for an animal. I've also concluded, from my previous experiences hunting in Ft McMurray where there is no bowzone, that it's absurd for us to give this zone up to fire arms. How are we to hunt successfully with firearms to compete against? I've hunted in a "bird sanctuary", only to hear shotguns going off left and right, fire arm noise makes it almost impossible for a Bow hunter after big game.
Guys,

Call the County of Parkland immediately at 780-968-8888 and tell them that you would like your opinion recorded on the new proposed primitive weapon (shotgun and muzzleloader season) in WMU 248 (bowzone part of Parkland county). Tell them that you are opposed to this proposed new season. We have to let them know because there is a meeting this Thursday (July 10th) at Garden Valley hall just south of Spruce Grove at 7pm and if we do not stand up for our bowzone this week, she's all gone! Come to the meeting if you can but at the least make the phone call or send the e mail.

PS pass this on to other bowhunters and/or people who live in Parkland County, Spruce Grove or Stony Plain and get them to call in by this Wednesday or e mail Mark Cardinal at the County and tell him where you live (preferably in the County or Spruce Grove or Stony or Edmonton) and that you are very opposed to the proposed primitive weapon season. His e mail address is mcardinal@parklandcounty.com

It only takes 3 minutes to be heard, so be heard!

[MerlinApexDylan]

Dear Mark Cardinal,

I am a Bow hunter residing in Edmonton Alberta. It has come to my attention that there is a proposed bill to allow primitive hunters with black powder and shot guns into the Bow hunting zone during the Bow Hunting season. As a resident of zone 248, I am whole heartedly opposed to this decision and believe it must never come to be.

As a Bow hunter, the places where we can hunt and not have to compete with firearms noise, and fire arms dangers are few and far between. Bow hunter's generally hunt in full camo. In full camo during low light hunting hours in the mornings and evenings, Bow hunters may look like game animals at longer distances where shotgun's and black powder rifles are capable.

The chance to be successful as a Bow hunter is impeded greatly when firearms noise is in the area. Animals become more weary, when fire arm noise is in the area and this makes it very difficult for Bow hunters that are trying to get close to an animal in order to make a clean shot. I know this from my experiences as a Bow hunter living in Fort McMurray, where the season for "Bow only" is short and then the rest of the season is spent competing with fire arm hunters. My success rate was very low to almost null in the Fort McMurray area when competing with the fire arm hunters and the noise produced from fire arms.

I'm not opposed to fire arm hunting, or fire arm hunters. The vast majority of fire arm hunters are excellent people and very observant in the field. However, the lands on which a fire arm hunter are allowed to hunt, far outweighs the area's designated for Bow hunting only. Most rifle hunters also wear blaze orange, which is a safety measure, because blaze can be seen from a great distance. Bow hunters do not wear blaze orange, because our success is reliant on our ability to be stealthy and blend in with our surroundings, much like the animals we hunt. As I stated earlier and will reiterate, putting a fire arm hunter and bow hunter in the same area, could cause safety issues with less observant fire arm hunters in low light conditions.

Making Bow hunter's compete with an already overwhelming amount of fire arm hunters will only lead to the decline of Bow Hunting and that will lead to the decline in funds going towards Parkland Conservation and other wildlife conservation programs. Some Bow hunters, are only bow hunters and having to compete with fire arms in a bow only zone could lead to the decline of these bow only hunters. The vast majority of my hunting is done with a bow.

Sunday hunting has already been put in place to deal with the high deer populations. 1 extra day a week will count for a lot in zones near the city, where many people hunt during the weekends and only generally get Saturday to hunt.

My final suggestion would be, a proposal to extend the primitive season in December.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,
Dylan McLernon

[scooter]

Meeting tonight!

Don't forget!

[MerlinApexDylan]

we have to do a better job in harvesting antlerless animals or there will be changes made to achieve those harvest goals. We also discussed and reiterated the fact that ACCESS is the KEY issue in all of this -- no matter the weapons involved.

I would harvest as many antler-less animals as legal. As you iterated and I will reiterate, if the ACCESS is there I have no problem Bow hunting for a doe. I always try to be as respectful as I possibly can to the land owners, their fences and their live stock etc.

[MerlinApexDylan]

Out in full force on this night.

[WOOKIE]

Can anyone give the rest of us some insught into how the meeting went?

[scooter]

Can anyone give the rest of us some insught into how the meeting went?
Well folks it was quite a meeting. For those not in attendance....
116 people in attendance with about 10, or so, in favor of the primitive weapon season or on the fence and the remainder against.
Those in attendance covered all demographics...non-hunting and hunting residents, bowhunters and men, women and youth.

We learned that three years ago the county assumed responsibility to act on complaints pertaining to wildlife. Interestingly enough, Mark Cardinal stated that they had not recorded any complaints from residents in that time. In fairness, I believe their statement that counsellors received complaints and others in county government did as well. I remain doubtful that the numbers were significant enough to take the proposed action.

The facilitator's presented members from F&W to speak. The officers confirmed that three years ago, the county invited them to present on the implementation and effects of the Strathcona season. F&W confirmed that their numbers are based on flawed/biased data gathered from phone survey. They confirmed that other than removing deer from the herd, it made little difference on management to reduce the population. They also stated that vehicle collisions with wildlife increased but reasoned that the increase was not disproportionate with the overall increase in motor vehicle collisions due to the increase in population. They stated that, biologically, Parkland county has not reached it carrying capacity for the deer herd but socially the alleged complaints are indicators that residents view the herd as having done so. That said, they agreed that the increase in human population was a contributing factor.

During and following F&W presenting their statistics, a number of people asked questions and responses were given. The questions and dialogue in that part of the session brought home to everyone, that the county had not done their homework and we had. Unfortunately because of the manner in which the meeting was being facilitated, none of it was minuted.
The facilitator broke us into small groups where we discussed and documented our reasons why some wanted or supported the season or why some opposed the season. Then, group by group, we took the floor and stated those opinion/reasons and provided solutions on how to reduce the non substantiated over populated deer herd.

The on the fence or in favor folks took the floor and had points that mirrored what was to follow. From my lousy memory, the only thing that I recall that differed from our side was that it provided others who do not bowhunt to involve themselves in hunting there and a statement that it would reduce the chances of CWD coming to the county(hmmm). Then it was our turn and by the time that Jim and Kelly, who spoke for their respective groups, finished, there was nothing more that could be added from the rest of us.

I have to say at this time that we all have to recognize and thank those that involved themselves in this issue....a number of them went outside the box and took extra steps to call those accountable into question. They all are committed to making a difference and I appreciate it. That said and not to diminish the work that others did that I am not aware of, I think special mention has to go to Jim and to Kelly. They both did a tremendous amount of networking, research and they challenged the county government in such a way that demonstrated that much more could be done. In their presentations representing their groups, which Ryan and Scott video taped, they blew absolutely everything the county asserted and every possible rationale for implementing the season. They provided sound and reasonable alternatives/solutions that, I believe, haven't been considered by the
county. There was nothing else for any of the other groups to say.
They did a great job.

When it came around to my group, I re-asserted our position, as I had during open discussion, that the ABA and it's executive are committed to helping the county address the problem.
After the group presentations, I submitted Brent's letter and my talking points for the record.
It was then explained to us that the facilitators report would go to Mark Cardinal, then to his supervisors until it reached the county commissioner and then to council with recommendations. Apparently, we won't learn those recommendations until the council meeting when they are presented. That is likely to occur on 26 August or meetings following.

[WOOKIE]

Good job to those that attended. Let's hope some common sense is found and 248 remains an archery only zone.

[MerlinApexDylan]

Well, Parkland County anyhow.:beer:

[Huntingsafetyproducts.com]

Would I be correct by saying that the "no shooting bylaw" is still off?

[scooter]

We're working on getting that bylaw reinstated.

In the meantime, here's the facilitator's report from the open house on July 11th, 2008.

It's an interesting read.

http://www.parklandcounty.com/Assets/Agriculture/PDF/Proposed+Shotgun+Season+Report+2008.pdf

Scott

Here's the Parkland County Website Page

http://www.parklandcounty.com/What_is_New/Current_Projects_and_Initiatives/Proposed_Shotgun__Muzzle_Loader_and_Crossbow_Hunti ng_Season.htm

[Huntingsafetyproducts.com]

It was good to read through the report from July on this issue.

I have in the past tried to get permission from a friendly "senior" land owner who has land a 1/4 mile away. He had over 7 quarters available but since he had an "arrangement" with an outfitter, he gave me permission to hunt about 20 acres. He said it should be ok since the outfitter had so much land to hunt on. I received a phone call very quickly from the outfitter telling me to stay off and he quickly convinced the land owner to keep me away.

I have found that there is big business in outfitting in the area and I hope the "No black powder issue" is not being fueled by these Bowhunting outfitters. Especially the ones who don't want to share!

[russ]

Just a thought here for ya...

I can't help but think to myself what economic incentives are there for a guy with a user name like "Huntersafetyproducts.com"

Take it from a guy with a record for standing up for residents 1st, guides & outfitters 2nd - I'm pretty sure that what you're insinuating isn't the case. However I could see some one that say sells x-bows & muzzle loaders wanting the Edmonton's World famous bowzone dismantled to forward thier own economic interests.

[Huntingsafetyproducts.com]

Please do not get me wrong. My motives are pure.

I definitely don't support the Black Powder, muzzle loader concept in this area. I've lived in this area since 1979 and I like things the way they are. As a land owner in this area I truly share the true reasons/concerns of safety and conservation issues this impresses. I have been an avid bow hunter since 1982, so I fully value and support the "bow zone". To be perfectly honest, the only thing that excites me is that I can sight my rifle in , within the law, on my own farm.

I just hope that this initiative is built on a good foundation and not on a foundation of protecting some ones "market". You are probably right by saying this most likely is not the case, but it is good to keep an eye on who is speaking out the loudest.

As for being in the hunting safety products business, I would benefit from bow hunters as well as rifle hunters alike. (It does not really matter to me) But on the same note I can see reason for being suspicious. Guys like me should be tested for their motives.

[Eagle Eye]

Work it out.
I have not read all the information and details but it appears that the bowhunters are looking out for themselves.

I'm a landowner in WMU 212 outside of Calgary. I have hunted with a bow since 1975. We have allowed bow hunters on our ranch prior to 1975 when very few people hunted with a bow. Unforntunatley things have changed and we can no longer host everbody as some people would think.

The results of Parkland could have a mirror effect on WMU 212. I believe that the muzzle loader/shotgun season which is in place after the regular bowhunting season is good. I also believe it should be expanded to allow for the harvest of bucks. Land Owner Permits should also be allowed. (I believe the ABA has taken a different position).

Is there a saftey issue on my lands with guns? No not at all, I control access and those with firearms know where they can shoot and where they can't. Would changes to the muzleloader/shotgun season promote tresspassing and poaching? Yes it in all likelyhood but I have to deal with those issues anyway. The best way to control these problems is to have good hunters, friends and neighbors with their eyes and ears open. Then we must be prepared to charge the "bad apples" that call themselves hunters.

I support you in your quest to "Protect the Bowzones". If you want my help as a landowner/bowhunter you've got it. I would be happy to drive to Edmonton and attend the Stakeholders Meetings as an individual.

Please remember to work it out, there is room for changes.

[Huntingsafetyproducts.com]

Thanks Russ and Terry. You both have very valid points.

[Bowhunter742]

Is there a saftey issue on my lands with guns? No not at all, I control access and those with firearms know where they can shoot and where they can't. Would changes to the muzleloader/shotgun season promote tresspassing and poaching? Yes it in all likelyhood but I have to deal with those issues anyway. The best way to control these problems is to have good hunters, friends and neighbors with their eyes and ears open. Then we must be prepared to charge the "bad apples" that call themselves hunters.

Terry

The geography and population density in your neck of the woods may not put safety at the forefront of concerns but in the county of Parkland, the lay of the land and the population density is not conducive to firearms.(small acreages and farms stacked up against each other). You say that good hunters and neighbors are the key....that might be your case, but no one can control the mindset of hunters or permission givers if "lobbing a muzzleloader round 300 yds or more over hill and dale" is permitted.

My two cents worth

Gary

[Northernbuddy]

When I first moved to the bow zone I was all for the primative weapons being allowed. But after working in the bow zone and dealing with the residents in the area I am now against the primitave weapons being allowed. My understanding of the issue is it was not the farmers that raised the issue of changing the zone, rather it was acrage owners. They are tired of the deer eating there flowers and gardens. What do you expect, it is an excellent food plot. Its not the deer population that is the problem, it's the bow hunters getting access to the farmers land to hunt.

I took up bow hunting 3 years ago and finally got permission to hunt on 2 1\4 sections within the bow zone. The only reason I got permission was because I work with the land owner. He has told me that he had been approached by 2 well known outfitters in the area and denied them both access. He does not like the way they opperate. Being warned by an outfitter to stay off the property is typical of what I heard from other farmers. I know of a land owner who had given a local outfitter permission to hunt his land. He later gave a friend permission to hunt the same land. The friend put up a tree stand, when he came back on another day to hunt he had found out the the outfitter had recked his stand.

I do not believe the changing the zone to primative weapons will change the real problem in the bow zone. The issue that needs to be addressed is getting bow hunters permission to hunt on farm land. Bringing in primative weapons is not going to lower the deer population, all you are going to see is less land to hunt on because the farmers don't want the guns on there property.

As for being warned off the property by the outfitter, you should go back and talk with the land owner and let him know what took place. The outfitters need to be reminded that they are hunting on land with permission, the land belongs to the farmer and the farmer decides who is allowed to hunt on it. If the outfitter does not like it then he can take his clients west to the crown land like everyone else. Don't get me wrong I am not against outfitters, all it takes is one bad outfitter or hunter to make things difficult for everyone else

[scooter]

Just looked at the administration recommendation from Parkland County. They are recommending not having a shotgun and muzzleloader season but implementing a crossbow season in the bow zone.

http://www.parklandcounty.com/Assets/Communications/Current+Issues/Shotgun+Season+Request+for+Decision.pdf

[scooter]

Just looked at the administration recommendation from Parkland County. They are recommending not having a shotgun and muzzleloader season but implementing a crossbow season in the bow zone.

http://www.parklandcounty.com/Assets/Communications/Current+Issues/Shotgun+Season+Request+for+Decision.pdf
This just in!

The Parkland County council meeting happened this morning in regards to the motions of having a new primitive weapon season in the bowzone portion of the County. Jim Hole provided a presentation to enlighten the Council on the importance of the bowzone as a Parkland County resident and outfitting business owner. He did an excellent job in getting his point across. Also in attendance at the meeting representing Bowhunters interests were Kelly Semple, Dale Johnson, Curtis Cheney, Stan Schamuhn and myself. Kelly also did a short presentation on the willingness of hunting groups to work with the County to improve the deer population concerns.

Overall it was a very positive meeting with each Councillor taking the time to speak to the proposal. When the dust settled second readings were passed to both administrative recommendations put forward. The one motion was to rescind the bylaw that allowed the discharge of firearms ( it is now back in place - good for us). The second motion was to support bowhunting only in the WMU 248 portion of Parkland County. This was also passed and included a change to the wording to remove the allowing of crossbows as Council was made aware that there is already a provincial regulation in place that allows disabled bowhunters to apply for a crossbow permit.

In summary Parkland County WMU 248 will continue to a bowhunting only zone.
Great job by all involved to bring this to a successful conclusion.

On top of this good news the Council has recommended requesting SRD to implement an additional "harvest two does earn an extra buck tag" for the County and also extending bowseason until the end of December. Jim Hole and Kelly Semple will be providing these recommendations to the Councils administration staff in the near future. It will then be up to SRD to implement this County request. It will be interesting to see what happens with this.

Anyhow, great effort by all and enjoy your bow season!!

[scooter]

Here is the link to the Parkland County news release regarding the proposed primitive weapon season following yesterday's Council meeting:

http://www.parklandcounty.com/Assets/Communications/News+Releases/Firearms+bylaw+revised.pdf

[WOOKIE]

Good job!