Seminar: Do cow elk use an estrus call?

[trmichels]

What do you think?

I know there are "hyper cow" and "hot cow" calls on the market, do they simulate the mating call of a cow elk?

T.R.

[Top-pin]

let me guess .... NO right ????!!!!!! I am a avid elk hunter and this is a trick question because somebody out there better known as an "expert" did a study and it showed they do not use different calls to indicate their level of estrus .....ka sara sara .....

have a good day eh ..... LOL !

:wink:

[acearchery]

.... I have heard elk cows call hrough year to their calf etc... but in the season it seems to be more urgent and directed towards the elk bulls..... and elk bulls respond to cow caling much more readily than deer.... unless they already have a big harem....In my experience.....

Food for thought. Where I and my father hunt elk...... The bulls will respond readily to cow calls.... If you bugle...... the bulls shut down.... You may say this is because I bugled wrong (I am not an expert bugler) but I have had a few people with me that can bugle in elk from other areas and swear up and down I am wrong...... Until they come with me and experience the same thing.... It is to the point that since this is the only place where my dad hunts elk.... he gave his bugle to me for use in other areas.... In the area that I am talking about this population is quite isolated and thick bush. We actually hunt them with a tree stand!....These elk were transported to the above area in the 60's.... no elk there before.... Has anyone come across thius before.... Hunting pressure used to be a factor but is not present any longer (Dad owns all te land where this pocket of elk can be accessed and shut it down to let population recover)..... the bulls in this area are huge... Dad shot a 378 in 2003 and a 383 in 2004.... In 05 I saw an ass-scratcher at 18 yards but could not middle tines because of trees....Could see eye guards and back fork.... They have to be a 6 pointer on one side!... When he left I saw that he was a 7x7......DOH!!!!!.....
Now the elk will bugle but very little and only under special circumstances.... has to be below 5 degrees celsius.... Only in morning before sun is up very high.... and they do not seem to respond to each others' bugles....but they will come into a cow call...but will not vocalise..... I think that what may be happening is that since this was an isolated population that was subject to heavy hunting pressure that the gene that causes vocalisation was selected against (They got shot) that the population has developed bulls that do not have the gene that causes vocalisation...... Or the bull elk have learned not to vocalise... or forgot how to vocalise..... What do you all think?...............

[trmichels]

let me guess .... NO right ????!!!!!! I am a avid elk hunter and this is a trick question because somebody out there better known as an "expert" did a study and it showed they do not use different calls to indicate their level of estrus .....ka sara sara .....

have a good day eh ..... LOL !

:wink:

I don't know of anyone ever finding that different levels of estrus resulted in different cow elk vocalizations. I do know that Dr. Geist and the Dr.'s Craighead havedone a lot of research on elk, and write about several elk vocalizations.

T.R.

[trmichels]

.... I have heard elk cows call hrough year to their calf etc... but in the season it seems to be more urgent and directed towards the elk bulls..... and elk bulls respond to cow caling much more readily than deer.... unless they already have a big harem....In my experience.....

Food for thought. Where I and my father hunt elk...... The bulls will respond readily to cow calls.... If you bugle...... the bulls shut down.... You may say this is because I bugled wrong (I am not an expert bugler) but I have had a few people with me that can bugle in elk from other areas and swear up and down I am wrong...... Until they come with me and experience the same thing.... It is to the point that since this is the only place where my dad hunts elk.... he gave his bugle to me for use in other areas.... In the area that I am talking about this population is quite isolated and thick bush. We actually hunt them with a tree stand!....These elk were transported to the above area in the 60's.... no elk there before.... Has anyone come across thius before.... Hunting pressure used to be a factor but is not present any longer (Dad owns all te land where this pocket of elk can be accessed and shut it down to let population recover)..... the bulls in this area are huge... Dad shot a 378 in 2003 and a 383 in 2004.... In 05 I saw an ass-scratcher at 18 yards but could not middle tines because of trees....Could see eye guards and back fork.... They have to be a 6 pointer on one side!... When he left I saw that he was a 7x7......DOH!!!!!.....
Now the elk will bugle but very little and only under special circumstances.... has to be below 5 degrees celsius.... Only in morning before sun is up very high.... and they do not seem to respond to each others' bugles....but they will come into a cow call...but will not vocalise..... I think that what may be happening is that since this was an isolated population that was subject to heavy hunting pressure that the gene that causes vocalisation was selected against (They got shot) that the population has developed bulls that do not have the gene that causes vocalisation...... Or the bull elk have learned not to vocalise... or forgot how to vocalise..... What do you all think?...............

Obviosly the first thing I am going to ask is, "how many days from August 15-November 15 have you spent in the area", because if you aren't there listening at least three times per week, during that entire time frame you aren't going to know how often the bulls bugle and under what meteorological conditions the bulls bugle under.

That being said, you raise some points I have stated for years.

I'll tell you my thoughts on bugling after others hae had a chance to post theirs.

But, do the cow elk call "to" the bulls, so the cows can get bred?

T.R.

[acearchery]

We do hear the cow elk vocalising... but since these calls are not as loud as a bugle.. can only hear when animals are very close......

As for time.... my Dad is on the land from May to end of November throughout the week and periodically in winter... every second week or so... His cabin is 1/4 mile from the treestand and it is in a river valley... elk bules carry a long way!... If they bugle he hears it!

When hunting. (Aug 16 to Nevember 30) ... every morning that he is not working..... (He works weekends)... We have mule deer, wt deer, moose, elk, caribou and a few scattered Stone Sheep!.... (another isolated pocket) .... In summer lots of fishing.... Rainbow, Bull trout/Dolly Varden... scientists still arguing about what they are in that river.... lake trout,grayling, whitefish... lake and rockies.... kokanee....pike...walleye... you name it.... its kind of an outdoor paradise I grew up in!.... Listen at least 3 times per week... Many people try o hunt nearby but very few elk taken.... We call them forest ghosts!....unbelievably quiet..... ...

I am also assumng the cows call to bulls because the "lost cow call".... sure brings em in....Another on that works well is the calf call..... but the calls only seem to work when bulls are bugling.... In the area there are also many "wallows" within a 200 yard radius of our tree stand you will find 8 to 10 wallowsevery year... half within 50 yards!....One other thing is these elk are completely spooked.... they see any human sign or hear you.... GONE!....ALL YEAR ROUND!.....cows too!....

[acearchery]

I see you are staing the author's of the research papers... Thanks....!

[trmichels]

I don't know if there are papers available by Geist and the Craighead's, but you can refer to The Ecology and Mangement of NA Elk, by Stackpole. Geist authors the Biology and Behavior Chapter.

T.R.